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tv   MSNBC Live With Craig Melvin  MSNBC  May 21, 2018 10:00am-11:00am PDT

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>> an amazing scene in hawaii as mount kilauea unleashing lava across the big island. pictures from our nbc affiliate. launching molten fireballs into the air. new concerns over air quality as the lava reaches the ocean sending hydrochloric acid, gas and tiny shards of volcanic gas drifting across the i been. that does it for us for this edition of "andrea mitchell reports." chris jansing is up next. >> garn. i am chris jansing at msnbc headquarters in new york. i hereby demand -- the president of the united states stepping into territory almost no president has dared to go. putting direct pressure other than the justice department to do his bidding in the russia investigation, and goes face-to-face with the intelligence community as he publicly berates of work of the fbi. plus -- school massacre. students in sante fe, texas, say
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they were not surprised the gunman went on a shooting spree, almost as if they're accepting that could happen to them. why the response to this shooting may be even more complicated than what we're used to seeing. and criminal investigation. police in new york now confirm they're investigating celebrity chef mario batali. the #metoo movement, seeking critical charges against someone both rich and famous. we begin with the president turning against his own justice department with the words, "i hereby demand," issuing an ultimatum to the fbi whether they infiltrated or surveilled his campaign for political purposes. the justice department quickly responding asking its solicitor, inspector general, to expand the all existing review of the agency. so let's look at the chain of events. trump bashes the former cia director and intelligence agencies in a series of tweets.
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those tweets coming after his weekend tweet storm. eight tweets over 24 hours demanding that the justice department investigate. so then this morning, he goes to cia headquarters. the swearing-in of the new cia director gina haspel and praises the intel community. nbc's white house correspondent kristen welker joins me now. kristen, just the second time that the president has been to cia headquarters. we remember the first time after the inauguration. stood in front of the agency's memorial for the fallen and delivered a political speech. highly criticized for that publicly insulting the agency for months. but after a weekend of bashing the intel community, i mean, was today any less awkward, showing up there at the cia? >> reporter: well, the backdrop certainly was equally as awkward, chris. you're right about that. in terms of his public remarks the president stuck to his script and put the focus on gina haspel. the fact she's the first woman
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to now become the cia director and the fact she was facing steep odds in terms of her confirmation process. skepticism and criticism about her rolepost-9/11 era and interrogation practices now deemed torture. senator mccain opposed her nomination but ultimately he was confirmed and won over six democrats. president trump focusing on that victory today. a political win for the president an also, of course, an historic moment. the fact do you have the first woman who is now the cia director, chris. >> which brings us to his threat. what do we know about how the president might follow through on his demand that the justice department launch an investigation today? >> reporter: chris, you pointed out, this was stunning. the fact you have the president using that term. "i hereby demand that the justice department look into the revelations of an informant having communications with his campaign during the 2016
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election." of course, we know that that did happen after the fbi became aware of russia's potential meddling. at that point in time of the 2016 election. and florez, spokesperson for the justice department relacing this statement saying the department asked the inspector general to expand the ongoing review of the fisa application process to include determining whether there was any impropriety or political motivation and how the fbi conducted its counterintelligence investigation of persons suspected of involvement with the russian agents who interf e interfered in the 2016 presidential election. now, this comes from the deputy attorney general rod rosenstein saying if anyone intifiltrated need to know about it and take appropriate action. all of this sharply criticized by democrats on capitol hill. adam schiff, effectively saying that this is an overreach of the president's power.
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he shouldn't be in any way directing the justice department or investigators to do anything. but, again, the white house defending this move. rudy giuliani, the president's attorney speaking out over the weekend to nbc news, chris, saying the president is acting completely appropriately. that will certainly be up for debate, but as you point out, the big question becomes what if this investigation doesn't determine what the president would like it to? what if he disagrees with the findings? what happens next? would rod rosenstein's job be in jeopardy? we have to wait and see. >> thank you so much. bring in mimi roca, former assistant u.s. attorney in the southern district of new york, now a fellow justice at case university law school and msnbc legal analyst. charlie sykes, contributing editor from "the weekly standard," and e.j., "washington post" columnist and senior foley oh with the brooking ins and msnbc contributor as well. what former acting attorney general sally yates said about
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this today on "morning joe." >> i think what we're seeing here is the president has just taken his all-out assault on the rule of law to a new level, and this time he is ordering up an investigation of the investigators, who are examining his own campaign. you know, that's really shocking. >> i'm going to repeat that, mimi. an investigation of the -- investigation of the investigators, who are looking into something that involves him. what's your take on it? >> absolutely. i think sally yates is right. it's shocking. he's claiming he wants an investigation of whether this informant was, you know, put there for political motives but really what he's done is using the power of the presidency to try and order an investigation and derail a legitimate investigation for his own political purposes. and it really is frightening. i think the people who believe in the independence of the
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department of justice, you know, it may sound like we're overstating this, but we're really frightened by this. and, you know, contribution i think that, you know -- we need to go back to what -- what happened? and put ourselves in the shoes of law enforcement at the time that this informant apparently was activated. you know, they had information that a foreign power was trying to infiltrate our democracy, our election process. and they, in fact, warned the president and his campaign about that, and those warnings were nod heeded. so law enforcement did what we all should want it to do. they tried to ferret that out and figure out why are the russians trying to get inside donald trump's campaign? are they, and if so, why? and to turn that into something bad just -- is really twisted. >> well, and e.j., the president, easy to keep count sending eight tweets about the
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issue yesterday alone. of course, everybody talking about that phrase, "i hereby demand." how fragile, how extraordinary a moment do you see this being? is thas case we could be heading to yore saturday night massacre or making too much of another presidential tweet storm? >> i don't any we're making too much of it. worth noting it was raining this weekend and he couldn't golf as much as far as i could tell. we could anticipate a lot of tweets. but this is really troubling. i have given up for one saying, this is it, because there's always something else after the "it" you thought was decisive, but this is really deeply irresponsible and i think very likely corrupt. what you have here, ironically, is trump playing into the narrative that he is trying to obstruct justice. something that mueller, we have every reason to believe, is investigating. and that if he weren't trying to
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hold mueller back from something, we can have theories about what it is, we don't know yet, he wouldn't be doing things like this. and while, yes, he can legally and constitutionally fire anyone he wants in the justice department, this really looks like he is, a., trying to create propaganda points for his own side saying see how illegitimate this is, but really, b., trying to derail the justice department and put rosenstein in the worst situation possible. for now, i think rosenstein has fended it off, but we still await what trump is going to do next. >> charlie, what the chairman of the freedom caucus, mark meadows tweeted. this is the right call from donald trump. we've seen disturbing evidence that the fbi engaged in political targeting with the doj can't be trusted to investigate themselves. congress needs the documents, too. rod rosenstein, where are the documents? show americans the truth. and the president also, by the
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way, gave a shatout to devon nunez today calling him courageous, of course, nunez pushing for the release of sensitive documents in the russia probe. what's your take? is this trying to appeal to the base? is this a president who didn't have time to golf? or a president for whom the frustration is building to a level that he might do something that members of congress consider constitutionally questionable? >> all of the above. obviously, this is part of his strategy of distraction, and then trying to gin up the base, but -- all of the focus on the informant is a trivial distraction from a non-trivial investigation. on another level, this is shocking. it is appalling, because it does breach so many norms, but it's not surprising, because this president and his supporters including his supporters in congress have been engaging in this slow-motion obstruction of justice for more than a year now. their goal is to discredit this investigation, derail this
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investigation. i'm hoping what rod rosenstein has done is to try to finesse the president's demand by simply saying, okay. we're going to consider this as part of the i.g. report in order to protect the integrity of that investigation. this could lead to a saturday night massacre but i'm hoping what rod rosenstein is doing, defuse the situation so the president does not do what his allies are pushing him to do. i say by the way, one of the mow depressing aspects, watching right-wing media and republican members of congress join in this attempt to somehow undermine the special counsel's investigation by bringing up something that robert mueller had absolutely nothing at all to do with. >> mimi, what did you think of rod rosenstein's tweet? some people, and i think correct me if i'm wrong, charlie. i think charlie is getting at this. rod rosenstein was tweeting something that the president might see as appeasing him, but
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in fact he's not intending or agreeing to undertake anything significant? >> look, the doj idealist in me wanted rosenstein to stand up and say, there's no -- no indication of this. no. we don't do investigations because you demand them, if there's no, no proof, no indication. but rosenstein is clearly a prag in aa -- pragmatist and walkinga tightrope. what charlie said. trying to calm the president down. let everybody another, we're putting this in the hands of an independent, neutral third party. not independent completely from the department of justice, the a.g., but that's his job, to investigate the department of justice. saying we'll put this in this bucket, let's move on. >> go ahead, e.j.? >> and don't let me interrupt. finish, mimi. >> no. i was going to say those who want to see the mueller
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investigation be completed, you know, that was probably a wise choice. >> yeah. i'm very much agreeing with mimi, there's a big part of me that wishes he had said, no. but i think -- and that we're not going to do anything here, and the precedent this sets isn't great. on the other hand, under the circumstances, he did the right thing, because what would be worse at this point is to create an excuse for trump to fire him, to mess around with mueller. what he's done with this move is, he's made it harder for the president to do what the president might like to do, and so in this case, pragmatism turns out very likely to be principled, although we'll see how it plays out. >> yes. and trying to figure, take one part of this, about energizing the base. where does he think the base is going to go? number one. number two, i -- i'm curious what your thought is that if we are indeed moving closer and
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closer to whether it's a saturday night massacre or something close coming up to the edge of that, does that not energize the other side? and what does it mean for the great middle? from a political point of view, which we know isn't the president's motivation that the motivation is his own gut reaction, but what does this mean? >> well, it's twofold. if you actually get to a saturday night massacre that creates a really uncontrollable, unpredictable circumstance and you would hope there are smarter grown-ups in the room explaining that would be a mistake. >> are you confident of that? >> no, i'm not. not at all. but on the issue of ginning of you the base. understand that portraying donald trump as the unjustly besieged president. our president. they are trying to tear down our president. donald trump as victim is a very powerful motivation for the republican base, and you can tell that they would like to weaponize that as much as
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possible. but also just to throw up as much -- as much smoke and dust as they possibly can so that we are not talking about, for example, the revelations over the weekend that donald trump jr. has another meeting in trump tower where he -- >> we'll talk about that next block. i promise. >> conspired with folks from the middle east, because this is, of course, what donald trump wants to do. focus on what the bad guys are doing and how unfair i am being treated nap is red meat. >> charl sykes, mimi and e.j., thanks to you all for being here. from now on when you talk about a controversial trump tower meeting from 2016, you may need to get more specific. those reports, just heard charlie reference them. a second meeting involving donald trump jr. and a foreign interest promising to help defeat hillary clinton. plus a state-wide moment of silence in texas after a gunman killed ten people inside a school. even if there's a call to replace moments of silence with moments of action -- plus, lava spewing from a
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hawaii volcano. look what's happening right now. these pictures are unbelievable. we'll talk about them. the new dangers all of this poses add that lava reaches the waters of the pacific ocean. picking the right style takes time.
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times" and it included "an israeli specialist in social media manipulation, emissary for two wealthy arab princes and republican donor way controversial past in the middle east as a private security contractor." it followed the infamous june 2016 meeting at trump tower where donald trump jr. met with a kremlin-linked russian attorney. let's bring in msnbc political analyst richard stengel. former undersecretary of defense former managing editor at m mag -- "time" magazine. and sister of education secretary, betsy devos, and israeli social media specialist and according to the "new york times," donald trump jr. responded approvingly, but, rick, his dad often says this is a witch-hunt? >> so, we'll stipulate donald trump jr. doesn't know a lot about a lot of things. we may even stipulate that he
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didn't know, although it's hard to imagine, that it's illegal for a foreign government to try to influence a federal election, the election of the president of the united states. but why wouldn't he sometimes go, gee, my dad is running for president of the united states of america. why do representatives of the uae and saudi arabia want to meet with me? that doesn't make sense. the problem with that is so uae and saudi arabia as you know, mock democracy. they're family businesses run by ought ca autocrat. a family business run by autocrat. maybe get purchase. >> and make bring it back to 2016, not that muff differech d fe has doesn't have a deeper idea what's happening, why -- >> interested because partially because they think she'll be tougher on them than donald
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trump would be. partially because they recognize the authoritarian tendencies of donald trump, that would work with them better. and to go back to your original question about the investigation. why are we looking into this? because foreign governments are not allowed to influence elections for president. so we're trying to find out, did the uae, did saudi arabia, did israel and the part of this tech company influence the federal electi election? you hired that firm, violation of federal law if maany employe was not american citizens. >> meantime, a statement from donald trump lawyers saying prior to the 2016 election donald trump jr. recall as meeting with erik prince, nader and another individual who may be george samal. pitched mr. trump jr. on a marketing strategy. he wasn't interested. that was the end of it. but we often hear, let's follow the money. interesting line from the "new york times" investigation. after mr. trump was "leected mr.
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nader paid a large sum of money described by one associate as up to $2 million. that could -- maybe, seem like follow the money? >> yes. i don't want to make -- >> let's not get haeds ahead of ourselves. >> donald trump may be telling the truth, that may be the fact. doesn't make sense. i don't know i want to do this and that's why we need to investigation. >> the indication, at least, according to "new york times," he was very interested. been very interested throughout the course of the campaign on anyone who could give him information or help him in ways that would help his father become president. >> yes which he shouldn't have done. according to the "new york times" mr. made sir cooperating with the special prosecutor. >> rick stengel. good to see you, my friend. thank you. a texas community finding strength after a mass shooting at school. how students in sante fe are supporting one another as funeral begins with ten of their friends and teachers. also we'll talk with mark kelly works with gabby giffords
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horrific shooting at sante fe high school. that shooting is the 16th at a school alone sparking an emotional reaction. >> i'm so sick of moment of silence. like, it's not working. like, obviously. so -- sorry. so why don't we -- why don't we not do one of silence bought moment of action. a moment of change? why don't we change what's happening? because it's horrible! [ cheers and applause ] >> msnbc's mariana atencio at at sante fe high school. what are you learning and how's the community doing? >> reporter: chris, you were here when the shooting happened or right after. a lot of grief. a lot of anger. shock still. as of today, forepeople remain in hospitals. two in good condition. one in serious condition. and one still in critical condition, and that is john barnes, the 49-year-old sante fe police officer who actually ran towards the gunfire.
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most likely saving lives at that school. the community here remembering the ten people lost and coming to terms with what happened. i'm here with jordan folkwell, a ninth greater. jordan, you were actually in the building. can you tell me how you're feeling 48 hours after? >> i feel like it's just -- i feel like it's not real. i feel like this is not my school. like, this is not the school that i call my home. i am so, so proud to say i go to school here even after this horrible tragedy, but just i can just keep picturing myself running ouch the building. i keep picturing those kids walking in the hall every day and thinking how i'm never going to have a conversation with them and that just breaks my heart. >> reporter: how are you remembering the friends and classmates you lost? >> i'm big on taking pictures all the time. i look back at photos, see pictures of them and it breaks my heart know i'll never be able to take a picture, talk, laugh
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with them. gone in a split second. >> reporter: noticing your nails. >> yes. >> reporter: i wonder if we can show our chris jansing. what does this mean? >> i didn't know all of the victims that passed away, but they are always in my heart. always will be and i always will -- always think about them. i did know a few of them and it breaks my heart i won't ever be able to -- >> reporter: initials? >> yes. >> reporter: the ten people whose lives were lost in your nails on your hands right now? >> yes. >> reporter: in a state like texas, can you tell me, we've heard from the governor. he wants to implement a plan focused on mental health. what kind of change would you like to see if anything as a student who went to sante fe? >> any change should happen. shouldn't ap to my school or any school. something no school should have to go through. more safety, maybe more officers. maybe more metal detectiver det.
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those ten incident lives would no ever have to pass abate because of something like this. >> reporter: thank you for your time. the shooting at sante fe high. the 16th school shooting this year in america. chris? >> thank you so much for that. for more i'm joined by captain mark kelly, retired nasa astronaut, co-founder of the gun safety group, giffords, courage to fight gun violence after his wife was critically injured in a 2011 shooting. captain kelly, here we are again you and i talking after one of these shootings. 9 reaction i found when in texas, different from what we saw in parkland. the students i talked with over the weekend -- largely unsurprised by what happened. they have moved from what i've been familiar with in covering so many, too many of these shootings from i can't believe it happened here to i was kind of expecting it. what do we say to kids who are
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now going to school expecting there's a chance i could get shot? >> yeah. that's a good question, chris. it's an unfortunate situation that we've created for these young people. since the shooting in columbine high school, we've had 150,000 children in this country subject to this kind of violence. they were in schools where these sort of school shootings have happened. we've got to do a better job. we've got to address this in a very comprehensive way right from the top. it starts with the president. starts with congress. the governor of texas. he certainly has it within his power to address this issue in -- in a real matter, you know. that's not just -- you know, it's not just mental health. it's not just hardening the schools. those things are important. at the same time we have to figure a way how to keep guns
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out of the hands of people who should not have them. >> how do we bridge this divide and what we've heard from the students at parkland and first of all, we just heard from this young woman and my heart breaks for her. she's never going to see her friends again but talking about more metal detectors. talking about more officers in school. when i talked to the local congressman on saturday, he said that the fact that this police officer, the school police officer, who went in and is now fighting for his life shows that the only way to stop a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun. how do you respond to that? >> well, the data doesn't support that. i mean, we know that where there are more guns, there is more gun violence. i'm a gun owner. i own eight firearms. i'm a strong supporter of the second amendment. people have a right to defend themselves, but in the states with weak laws, more firearms, more people die from gun violence. arming teachers, with the lieutenant governor, just yesterday or the day before
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advocated for is not the solution. we put more guns in schools we'll have more people shot and killed. the fallacy of the, you know, of the good guy with the gun is something that the gun lobby likes to support, because it sells more firearms. that is not the solution. i mean, the solution lies in comprehensive, real laws that protect people by making it more difficult for people who shouldn't have firearms from getting them. >> captain, obviously, this is, i'm sure you know, a conservative part of texas. already has a strong gun culture. you pointed out, you're a gun owner and you get it. the other thing i thing that's changed here in texas, just this weekend, from newtown and parkland, not only did i not find in many, many interviews, a widespread cry for new legislation to stop it. students repeatedly told me because of the threat they don't want to go back into that classroom. let me play part of an interview i did for you.
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>> i have been a little surprised in talking to some students there. they don't want to come back. they're fearful of coming heari today? >> people basically telling us they don't want to come back. i don't want to come back, too, i'm scared. i don't know what will happen a lot. >> i've cried a lot. i'm still processing it, but as far as coming back, i'm not coming to school. >> you're not going to come to school. >> are you heard about the kids who say they want to be home schooled, they don't want to come to school? >> some of us. >> yeah. >> her dad wants her to be home schooled. i'm not comfortable. >> so parents talking about home schooling their kids as a solution to this, and you just pointed out, common sense legislation. but do you see anything that has moved the needle, whether from columbine, whether it's from -- i honestly thought, i remember sitting across from a parking lot where your wife was shot and thinking, a member of congress
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has just taken a bullet, something will change. newtown. 6 and 7 yrlt-year-olds, somethi will change. where is that place where common sense legislation supported by a majority of the american people actually happens? >> well were she helped pass 200 pieces of legislation in 45 different states that are saving people's lives. progress is slow especially at the federal level. but what has changed, especially since parkland, is young people are getting out there and registering to vote. we've seen it already. there was an article in the "new york times" today about what's going on in florida. north carolina, also pennsylvania. specific examples. voter registration among young people is up by upwards of 50%. 50% increase. and that's significant, and these people who are registering to vote, we know that 70% of them, when they vote in november, want stronger gun laws. that's going to make a difference. i really feel for that community in sante fe.
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i grew up ten minutes, not grew up. i lived ten minutes from that school when i was working as an astronaut at the johnson space center. these kids should not have to deal with this. i can understand where they're coming from. i mean, just this year we've had more children die in the classroom than we've had deaths in the united states military. that is not acceptable. i mean, there are people out there, the leadership of the nra, for example, would like us to think that this is -- this is a normal situation. i mean what did we hear from the new incoming president of the nra just yesterday? that the problem is riddled in. heard from the lieutenant governor, the problem is doors. or ritalin. the lieutenant governor of texas. this is not the source of this problem. the source is that we have allowed guns to get into the hands of people that shouldn't have them. that's how this needs to be
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addressed. >> captain mark kelly. we always appreciate you taking time to talk to us and the best, our best to your wife, as always. thank you for being on. now to hawaii where the kilauea volcano erupted again. first serious injury now reported. a man's lag shattereding a being hit by a lava bomb just sitting on the front porch of his house. miguel almaguer has the latest. >> reporter: incredible scene here. one of the massive fissures that recently opened up. one of more than 20 cutting through the leilani estates outside of the kill way ra volcano and fish shears spouting geysers 15 feet into the air and a river of red pouring into the ocean creating health concerns with toxic steam coming off of the water, but in neighborhoods like this one, they're worried about the phi fiery rivers of r and geysers of lava. 40 structured destroyed.
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2,000 remain evacuated. by the situation here even two weeks after the first eruption remains so dynamic. >> miguel almaguer, thanks for his reporting. those pictures, unbelievable. seconds off. a new record says president trump may be think being a backing out of his planned historic summits with north korean kim jong-un. plus, allegations of sexual assault by chef batali. olay ultra moisture body wash gives skin the moisture it needs and keeps it there longer
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we are exactly 22 days out from president trump's planned face-to-face meeting with north korean leader kim jong-un after threats from north korea about the possibility of pulling out. seems president trump himself may be having second thoughts. the "new york times" reports the president is "increasingly concerned his summit meeting in singapore could turn into a political em embarrassment." and from the heritage foundation and leading expert in national security and foreign policy challenges joins me now. good to have you. is the president right to be worried? >> look, i don't know if the president is worried. i don't know the veracity of the news report. would i be worried if i were the president? my answer would be, no. i never thought we were on an s escatory path. what's the worst that could happen? go, shake hands. or put a big deal on the table
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and walk away. that means they'll come back and do more diplomacy. we're putting too much fixation on the meeting. >> well, put a lot of attention on, talked about the fact, you know, a lot of people -- i think the way he phrased it was, that most people, people seemed to think he should be considered for the nobel prize. doesn't want to say it but it often quoting other people as saying it. he's put a lot of attention on this. >> well, yeah. the president has also said, it's clear. if it's a bad deal i'll walk away and no deal we'll walk away. said that as well. >> should he go? >> well -- sure. i mean, i think diplomacy is fine. look, i think the whole, the fact we're doing this, i just think it demonstrates what many arg argued. from day one. never on a lineal path to confli conflict. these negotiations ar negotiating with the north ko a
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kore koreans. they are squirrely to deal with. anybody that thinks it's anything but a roller coaster is kind of nuts. diplomatic process, runs its course. the important thing not whats in negotiation but the underlying strategy protecting u.s. interests, maximum pressure. the important thing the president keep maximum pressure on nuclear deterrence, sanctions, keeps those in place until north korea is no longer a threat to the united states. >> we've also heard from john bolton. the national security advisers has been telling some of his colleagues, according to the "washington post," that if the summit -- he doesn't trust the summit will not go well. i mean, he certainly isn't alone in thinking you can't trust the north koreans nor can you trust kim jong-un. whatever -- even if they have the meeting and come to some quote/unquote meeting of the minds, what's to say they'll follow through with it? is john bolton, if, indeed, he is concerned about that, right? >> a legitimate concern. the north koreans have played
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rope-a-dope before, and look, the administration, gained one of the likely thing. come, play rope-a-dope. north koreans can say, do something small. increment's stal steps, but a b deal on the table or come and walk away from a huff. pts not magic to figure out the possible scenarios. the point, as long as our underlying strategy is the same the fate of one particular meeting in singapore isn't significant. >> from the heritage foundation, thank you for that. celebrity chef mario batali under criminal investigation. the latest allegations from women who say he harassed or assaulted them. taking stock of where we are in the legal #metoo movement and a conversation with that movement's founder.
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it's my word against the word of someone who's rich and powerful. >> same story we hear over and over again. whether a rich and powerful person in the media or just somebody with power over somebody else with less, and it's really unfortunate that we have to keep having these kinds of incidents to bring attention it. glad the "60 minutes" highlighted the survivor story. >> and brave of them still to come forwar i. >> we've mentioned obviously
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batali has repeatedly denied these charges, but the nypd has opened an investigation. how much jeopardy could he potentially be in, and conversely, how difficult is it to prove these kinds of allegations that date back to 2005? >> well, as described, those charges, which again he denies, put him squarely in first degree rape territory in new york state. now remember, new york state several years ago took away any time limits on bringing these charges. so prosecutors have as much time as they want to take to bring them. and the fact that she was drugged and there was sexual intercourse is a first degree rape charge. now on the other hand, it's still really difficult to prosecute rape cases. if the dna evidence is no longer available, we will get back to he said/she said territory. but let's remember, we live in a post-cosby world now. and i would argue that the social environment has changed, and certainly you saw the courage in the women who came forward and spoke about their
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experiences, all of them moved to tears. >> clearly not something they were comfortable doing just a few short years ago. one thing you and i talked early on when we were talking a lot about weinstein and what was going on in hollywood before a lot of other people came forward, would this have staying power, how does this have staying power. but batali, we're led to believe, had been talking about having a comeback. now after the k"60 minutes" report, he has more than 20 restaurants and several companies dumped him. but to face criminal and not just financial consequences. >> it is extremely important because it sends a message. it is the same thing as the cosby verdict, it sends a message that you are not above the law. you can't commit crimes willy-nilly and think that you can get away with them. so somebody like batali, this was also the reason why all this conversation about people making a comeback now is really problematic. because it is not to say that there's no road for redemption,
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but there has to be work that's done. sometimes that work is criminal investigation. right? and other times that work may be other things but that is dependent upon what the survivor needs. but we can't just say, give it six months and they'll be back. >> so what do we do? what do you do if you're a prosecutor and you're put in this position? look, you still have to have the evidence, right? and you know that this power is behind you, the power of this movement. people are looking at these differently. they're judging women and their stories differently. does that change sort of the evidence that you need to be able to collect here? >> well, interestingly, i think it does. and you have to look at the intersection between proof beyond a reasonable doubt and what juries require. >> because i think a couple years ago somebody would have said, well, unless they get a rape kit, unless they tested for blood and if she had drugs in her system, forget it. >> there was a time women had to prove they fought back. >> yeah.
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wasn't that long ago. >> not that long ago. the law often trails behind in these areas but here we are beginning to see signs of the law and juries catching up. and also something else, too -- businesses are much less tolerant about hearing frabout this behavior from stars. >> thanks, both of you. you came in and said, here we are again. the point, on the positive side again, is people are continuing to talk about this. as they did at cannes this past weekend. we'll be right back. i-cloud comy creating friction... and slowing innovation. with software-defined solutions, like hpe onesphere, you can tame the it monster. hewlett packard enterprise. clouds, apps, and insights faster. if these packs have the same number of bladder leak pads,
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that wraps up this hour of msnbc live. katy tur joins me now. and another day, shockingly, of tweets and breaking news. >> shockingly. but you are going on vacation tomorrow. so please enjoy. >> thank you. i will. she just said it, 11:00 a.m. out west, 2:00 p.m. in washington where we are following breaking news at the white house. the president says he will meet in the next hour, we are learning at least, with deputy attorney general rod rosenstein and christopher wray, the head of the fbi, presumably on their agenda will be the story the president wants you to pay attention to, the allegations that a government informant spied on his campaign for the white house. he wants to talk about his demand that the department of justice investigate whether the fbi infiltrated or surveilled the trump campaign for political purposes. he

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